Showing posts with label wide-gamut. Show all posts
Showing posts with label wide-gamut. Show all posts

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

What are the merits of a wide-gamut display in post-processing for web?

Question

I've been researching about monitors to get one for post-processing. It seems like a wide-gamut IPS panel is recommended. I'll also be using a color calibration device.

I print so rarely that it can be ignored; more than 99% of my photos are processed for web, so I use sRGB for processing them. It seems like almost any panel would be able to display 98% of sRGB, while wider gamut panels are significantly more expensive and known to cause trouble in applications that don't use color management.

So, the recommendation of using a wide gamut panel feels odd for such usage. What are the merits (if there are any) of a wide gamut panel in post-processing for web?

Asked by Imre

Answer

I would say that a wide-gamut display is NOT really necessary if you only intend to publish to the web. As you know, sRGB is pretty much the lowest common denominator for presentation on the web. Unless you expect the majority of your viewers to be using color-managed web browsers capable of properly rendering images tagged with AdobeRGB, there aren't really any merits to getting a wide-gamut display for such purposes.

The need for wider gamut displays relegated more to those who expect maximum quality from their prints, particularly those who print with their own equipment, and for printing equipment that supports the bulk of the AdobeRGB gamut. Top of the line consumer grade and most of the recent commercial grade ink jet printers from Epson, Canon, and some off-brand Giclee-grade printers support wide gamuts, and the envelope is constantly being pushed. AdobeRGB is certainly a possibility, and with some of the latest advancements in Epson inks, I believe they can print an even larger fully-encompassing gamut on a couple types of papers. If you don't expect such high-caliber prints on a regular basis, then I would say a wide-gamut (98% AdobeRGB) or ultra-wide-gamut display (120%+ AdobeRGB) are really unnecessary.

Answered by jrista

Thursday, December 15, 2011

How much of a difference do different color spaces make?

Question

How much of a difference does it make to use one of the extended colorspaces vs. the normal sRGB? And what difference does it make?

Are there situations where it is not important, and conversely are there situations where using an extended colorspace is essential?

Answer

Color spaces, as ysap stated, can be a confusing issue. There isn't a single correct answer to this question, and what you intend to do with the "final copies" of your images will really dictate what color spaces you use and when you convert from one to the other.

While I think it is getting a bit dated, sRGB is still the "safest" color space these days. Many professional printing services require sRGB for print (although that is changing these days, as many professional printing services now support AdobeRGB or even ProPhoto RGB). If you are publishing your images to the web, sRGB is also the safest color space to convert your final images to, as many web browsers do not support proper ICM, and default to rendering in the sRGB space.

What color space you use during your processing workflow, on the other hand, is a more complex story. First off, camera's see far more into the realm of green color than computers or printers can generally render. If you work in RAW, and want to preserve as much original color accuracy as possible throughout your workflow, it is best to keep your images in the widest possible gamut. If you are working with muted scenes, or scenes with limited color, particularly lower saturation, a narrower gamut will be ideal. Use of a wide gamut when processing RAW is usually done for you if you use a tool like Lightroom or Aperture, as those tools make the default assumption that RAW images will utilize a considerable amount of the ProPhoto RGB gamut...the only gamut that covers nearly the entire LAB space that represents human color perception. Converting from RAW to TIFF will, then by default, save TIFF images with ProPhoto RGB unless you choose otherwise. (When working directly in RAW, gamut is really not taken into account, as RAW images are generally not tagged with a gamut at all.)

Modern professional photography hardware, both computer screens and printers, have all moved towards AdobeRGB as the base or reference gamut. Top of the line, and even middle grade, LCD screens like the Apple CinemaDisplay, NEC, Eizo ColorEdge, or LaCie 700 RGB-LED series monitors all support 98-123% of the AdobeRGB gamut. Modern printers from Epson and Canon, particularly the prosumer models, but now also the professional/commercial lines, also support 98% or more of the AdobeRGB gamut. Epson printers tend to cover more of the blues and violets beyond the realm of sRGB and AdobeRGB, while Canon covers more of the reds and greens beyond the realm of sRGB and AdobeRGB. Therefor, if your intention is to process your photos on a professional grade wide-gamut LCD screen and print your photos on a prosumer Epson or Canon printer, the AdobeRGB gamut is the ideal choice for your final images.

Converting from a wide gamut to a smaller gamut can be a critical step in your workflow. There are a variety of rendering intents when converting between color spaces. The two most common are Relative Colorimetric intent, which aims to preserve original color value accuracy at the cost of perceptual accuracy, and Perceptual intent, which aims to preserve perceptual accuracy at the cost of original color value accuracy. Converting from one gamut to another should be done as infrequently as possible. Ideally, you would work in RAW until the moment you generate a "final copy" image for a specific medium, at which time you would convert that final copy to the appropriate gamut. If you are saving for web, the best gamut is sRGB. If you are saving for print, I would choose AdobeRGB unless you are sending off to a print lab for print, and they require sRGB.

When converting, it is important that you have your white and black points, curves, and contrast set correctly for. If you are converting to sRGB for display on the web, white and black points are far less important. For print, it is best to try soft proofing your image and tweak white and black points first before converting to a final gamut. You should convert and compare the original image to the converted image, and make sure you have not lost vibrancy or saturation in key areas. When converting from a wider gamut to a narrower gamut, the key areas where you may lose color will be in the greens and deep blues. If the difference between a source gamut and destination gamut color is broad, especially if that particular color is found in gradients, you may encounter some posterization or clipping. In such cases, you may want to adjust saturation, white and black points to reduce the range of color you are utilizing in your original image. This will lessen the amount of compression of color into the destination color space, and mitigate or eliminate posterization and clipping.

For a few general rules of thumb:

  • Cameras "see" a much wider gamut with their sensor than computer screens or printers can render. Particularly greens.
  • If you shoot vibrant, saturated scenes, a wider gamut will preserve colors better.
  • If you shoot muted or desaturated scenes, a narrower gamut will preserve colors better.
  • Most professional photography computer screens and printers support the AdobeRGB gamut.
    • Computer screens cover 98% - 123% or so of AdobeRGB
    • Printers cover around 98% or so of AdobeRGB, with different brands covering extended saturation into blues, violets, oranges, reds, and greens.
  • Saturated green is one of the primary colors lost when converting to a narrow gamut, with blue and red following.
  • The key difference between wide and narrow gamuts is their chromaticity.
    • Chromaticity generally refers to the hue and overall saturation of a color...its purity
    • Wider gamuts reach greater chromaticity
    • Narrower gamuts reach lesser chromaticity

Monday, October 31, 2011

How can I ensure proper color rendition with browsers on wide gamut displays?

Question

When editing for the web, everyone will recommend you to use sRGB, since a lot of browsers don't offer color management, and most browsers will interpret all images as being sRGB anyway.

This is correct for browsers used on normal gamut displays, which live in sRGB themselves.

Now enter wide gamut displays. These live in AdobeRGB color space, and to my dismay on a wide gamut display browsers without color management will interpret image data as being in AdobeRGB color space, too. What happens if sRGB image data is interpreted as AdobeRGB? The colors are off, too strong, it looks gaudy.

The problem even continues when using a browser with colormanagement like FireFox, but viewing pictures without embedded profile: the pictures will be interpreted as AdobeRGB instead of sRGB.

In short: since I got my wide gamut display flickr looks awful.

Any ideas how I get my browsers (Internet Explorer and FireFox) to use sRGB instead of AdobeRGB for color rendition as default?

I'm using Windows 7.

Funny thing, when I download the images to the local drive and use a file viewer to view them, the color is correctly interpreted as sRGB.

Answer

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do that is practical. To get what you want, you have to set your system profile to sRGB.

The behavior of image color rendition for images with no attached profiles is undefined. Browsers don't guess what color space an image is in, if no profile is attached. The operating system handles that.

The proper way to get color rendition correctly, is to attach a profile to the image. Obviously flickr (and smugmug thumbnails) do not give you this option.

So you have two choices: one, set windows to use sRGB as your monitor profile; then all non-tagged images will look like sRGB, but tagged images will look like crap, and your color management will be wack.

Or, just deal with the fact that unmanaged images are the devil and there is nothing you can do about it.

Perhaps there is a firefox plugin that can auto attach a color profile, but outside of that, it's just a plain old suck that is known as color management.

I've had to deal with this same issue with Smugmug. My images all have attached sRGB profiles, so they look great (in color managed browsers), but thumbnails looks oversaturated. It's because the thumbs are autogenerated, and smugmug refuses to attach a color profile to them, because it doubles the size of the thumbnail. So the thumbs render in whatever the way the OS decides to render them.

How can I assure proper color rendition with browsers on wide gamut displays?

Question

When editing for the web, everyone will recommend you to use sRGB, since a lot of browsers don't offer color management, and most browsers will interpret all images as being sRGB anyway.

This is correct for browsers used on normal gamut displays, which live in sRGB themselves.

Now enter wide gamut displays. These live in AdobeRGB color space, and to my dismay on a wide gamut display browsers without color management will interpret image data as being in AdobeRGB color space, too. What happens if sRGB image data is interpreted as AdobeRGB? The colors are off, too strong, it looks gaudy.

The problem even continues when using a browser with colormanagement like FireFox, but viewing pictures without embedded profile: the pictures will be interpreted as AdobeRGB instead of sRGB.

In short: since I got my wide gamut display flickr looks awful.

Any ideas how I get my browsers (Internet Explorer and FireFox) to use sRGB instead of AdobeRGB for color rendition as default?

I'm using Windows 7.

Funny thing, when I download the images to the local drive and use a file viewer to view them, the color is correctly interpreted as sRGB.

Answer

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do that is practical. To get what you want, you have to set your system profile to sRGB.

The behavior of image color rendition for images with no attached profiles is undefined. Browsers don't guess what color space an image is in, if no profile is attached. The operating system handles that.

The proper way to get color rendition correctly, is to attach a profile to the image. Obviously flickr (and smugmug thumbnails) do not give you this option.

So you have two choices: one, set windows to use sRGB as your monitor profile; then all non-tagged images will look like sRGB, but tagged images will look like crap, and your color management will be wack.

Or, just deal with the fact that unmanaged images are the devil and there is nothing you can do about it.

Perhaps there is a firefox plugin that can auto attach a color profile, but outside of that, it's just a plain old suck that is known as color management.

I've had to deal with this same issue with Smugmug. My images all have attached sRGB profiles, so they look great (in color managed browsers), but thumbnails looks oversaturated. It's because the thumbs are autogenerated, and smugmug refuses to attach a color profile to them, because it doubles the size of the thumbnail. So the thumbs render in whatever the way the OS decides to render them.

Sunday, October 30, 2011

How can I assure proper color rendition with browsers on WideGamut-Displays?

Question

When editing for the web, everyone will recommend you to use sRGB, since a lot of browsers don't offer color management, and most browsers will interpret all images as being sRGB anyway.

This is correct for browsers used on normal gamut displays, which live in sRGB themselves.

Now enter wide gamut displays. These live in AdobeRGB color space, and to my dismay on a wide gamut display browsers without color management will interpret image data as being in AdobeRGB color space, too. What happens if sRGB image data is interpreted as AdobeRGB? The colors are off, too strong, it looks gaudy.

The problem even continues when using a browser with colormanagement like FireFox, but viewing pictures without embedded profile: the pictures will be interpreted as AdobeRGB instead of sRGB.

In short: since I got my wide gamut display flickr looks awful.

Any ideas how I get my browsers (Internet Explorer and FireFox) to use sRGB instead of AdobeRGB for color rendition as default?

I'm using Windows 7.

Funny thing, when I download the images to the local drive and use a file viewer to view them, the color is correctly interpreted as sRGB.

Answer

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do that is practical. To get what you want, you have to set your system profile to sRGB.

The behavior of image color rendition for images with no attached profiles is undefined. Browsers don't guess what color space an image is in, if no profile is attached. The operating system handles that.

The proper way to get color rendition correctly, is to attach a profile to the image. Obviously flickr (and smugmug thumbnails) do not give you this option.

So you have two choices: one, set windows to use sRGB as your monitor profile; then all non-tagged images will look like sRGB, but tagged images will look like crap, and your color management will be wack.

Or, just deal with the fact that unmanaged images are the devil and there is nothing you can do about it.

Perhaps there is a firefox plugin that can auto attach a color profile, but outside of that, it's just a plain old suck that is known as color management.

I've had to deal with this same issue with Smugmug. My images all have attached sRGB profiles, so they look great (in color managed browsers), but thumbnails looks oversaturated. It's because the thumbs are autogenerated, and smugmug refuses to attach a color profile to them, because it doubles the size of the thumbnail. So the thumbs render in whatever the way the OS decides to render them.